Five Ways
Subscribe to my newsletter and get a free story!
Share this:

Guest Post: Ping-Pong, Spin, and Third-Ball Attack (Or, Why Dialogue Gets Boring and How to Fix It) by Gregory Ashe

Have you ever read dialogue like this?

     "We'll need the Spear of Glorgon to kill the Pit-Fiend Czhnarboth."

     "Yes, we will. Do you know where the Spear of Glorgon may be found?"

     "Sadly, it was lost centuries ago in the Empire of Cardel."

     "Then finding it will be the ultimate test of our powers."

     "True, and surely the gods of light will favor us."

One of the most common reasons dialogue gets boring is that it turns into a type of conversational ping-pong. Speakers volley lines of speech back and forth at each other. Each serve is neatly and appropriately returned. You’ve probably played a game or two of ping-pong like that yourself.

Think about the first time you ever picked up a paddle (in my mind, you’re in your uncle’s shag-carpeted basement.) You’re immensely proud of yourself for just getting it back and forth over the net. But it is also, effectively, a kind of stalemate””the ball goes back and forth, but nothing changes. And, after a while, it’s boring.

But a professional game of ping-pong, when you watch talented, competitive players? Not boring at all. After talking to ping-pong players and reading about the game, I think I know one reason why.

More than once I’ve come across the phrase “ping-pong is a game of spin.” If volleying the ball back and forth is the beginner level, then spin is at the heart of competitive ping-pong. It alters the movement of the ball so that the predictable becomes unpredictable. It’s what makes play volatile, explosive, unexpected””interesting.

Spin has the same effect in dialogue. It’s basically what it sounds like: a turn, a twist, a deviation.

The problem with ping-pong dialogue is that it’s so predictable: everyone stays on topic, everyone responds to the questions they’re asked, everyone provides accurate information. Dialogue with spin, in contrast, goes in unexpected directions. Since one of the reasons readers read is because they want to know the answer to a question, dialogue with spin draws readers into a story by raising (and partially answering) new questions.

How do you generate spin? A few ways, actually. Let me offer you three.

Give your characters an agenda.

When each character in a conversation has an agenda, it means that they have a goal””and, since you’re a talented writer and you have conflict bred in your bones, you know that these characters have different goals. Those goals help produce spin as each character attempts to steer the conversation toward their desired end. If, for example, you are working on dialogue between an exhausted detective and an amorous witness, you might have a great deal of fun as their competing agendas inflect their conversation in different ways.

Allow for subtext.

While subtext often naturally arises from giving characters an agenda, the two are not interchangeable.

Subtext is the text around and behind and between the words””the text that never makes it into text. When a character says exactly what they want, you’re dealing with on-the-nose dialogue, which is the clinical condition of having zero subtext. Subtext is about hidden meanings, unverbalized desires, buried insults.

To extend the example above, let’s imagine that our amorous witness is married and can’t directly proposition the detective. The spoken conversation might be exclusively about the crime, while the subtext might be the unspoken thrust-and-parry of an attempted seduction.

Employ “No” Dialogue.

I find this technique to be a great deal of fun. It’s exactly what it sounds like””one character wants something, and the other refuses to give it to them. The fun comes in finding ways to make the refusals””and there should be a number of them””indirect and distinct, without the character repeating themself. Often, this becomes part of both the competing agenda and the subtext; the three work together beautifully. In our example, perhaps the amorous witness is also the police chief’s romantic partner, and the detective’s refusals must be firm but indirect enough not to humiliate and enrage the witness.

Bonus technique: Third-ball Attack

To wrap-up our ping-pong analogy, I’d like to offer you one more idea: the third-ball attack. In ping-pong, this refers to a strategy that goes like this: Player A serves the ball (ball #1), Player B returns it (ball #2), and Player A attacks (ball #3).

Think of this as both a heuristic””a rule-of-thumb diagnostic””and as a technique. If you’re writing dialogue, and you can tell it’s starting to drag, look at the first three lines. If the first three lines are ping-pong dialogue, the likelihood is that the rest of the conversation is, too.

You can break it up by turning that third line into an attack: give the dialogue stakes no later than the third line. One character makes a difficult request, issues an ultimatum, attempts a threat, initiates a seduction””whatever it is, it has to commit them to a risky course of action so that, succeed or fail, there are consequences.

Final Considerations

Is the sky the limit with spin? Not exactly. There’s a point of diminishing returns, even a point where it becomes counterproductive. Too much spin produces conversations that are hard to follow (whether because of non sequiturs, or because they break genre conventions, or because they become illogical or incomprehensible). These all threaten to alienate the reader. More spin is not necessarily better.

The important things to remember? Ping-pong bad. Spin good. If nothing’s happening, third-ball attack. And remember, just like real people, fictional characters are rarely as good at communicating as they think they are.

What kind of dialogue bores you to sleep? What are your go-to strategies for pepping it up? Who writes your favorite dialogue? Share some examples and tell us why!

Want to improve your dialogue even more? In January 2023, Gregory will be teaching the Odyssey Online class, Angled Dialogue: Crafting Authentic-Sounding Dialogue to Convey Information, Escalate Conflict, and Advance Character-Driven Stories.

Odyssey Online classes combine deep focus, directed study, intensive practice, and detailed feedback to help students learn how to best use the tools and techniques covered to make major improvements in their fiction.

Apply by November 21 at odysseyworkshop.org!

BIO

Gregory Ashe is a bestselling author and longtime Midwesterner. He has lived in Chicago, Bloomington (IN), and Saint Louis, his current home. He primarily writes contemporary mysteries, with forays into romance, fantasy, and horror. Predominantly, his stories feature LGBTQ protagonists. When not reading and writing, he is an educator. He is a graduate of the Odyssey workshop and has returned to teach there. For more information, visit his website: www.gregoryashe.com.

This was a guest blog post.
Interested in blogging here?

Assembling an itinerary for a blog tour? Promoting a book, game, or other creative effort that’s related to fantasy, horror, or science fiction and want to write a guest post for me?

Alas, I cannot pay, but if that does not dissuade you, here’s the guidelines.

Guest posts are publicized on Twitter, several Facebook pages and groups, my newsletter, and in my weekly link round-ups; you are welcome to link to your site, social media, and other related material.

Send a 2-3 sentence description of the proposed piece along with relevant dates (if, for example, you want to time things with a book release) to cat AT kittywumpus.net. If it sounds good, I’ll let you know.

I prefer essays fall into one of the following areas but I’m open to interesting pitches:

  • Interesting and not much explored areas of writing
  • Writers or other individuals you have been inspired by
  • Your favorite kitchen and a recipe to cook in it
  • A recipe or description of a meal from your upcoming book
  • Women, PoC, LGBT, or otherwise disadvantaged creators in the history of speculative fiction, ranging from very early figures such as Margaret Cavendish and Mary Wollstonecraft up to the present day.
  • Women, PoC, LGBT, or other wise disadvantaged creators in the history of gaming, ranging from very early times up to the present day.
  • F&SF volunteer efforts you work with

Length is 500 words on up, but if you’ve got something stretching beyond 1500 words, you might consider splitting it up into a series.

When submitting the approved piece, please paste the text of the piece into the email. Please include 1-3 images, including a headshot or other representation of you, that can be used with the piece and a 100-150 word bio that includes a pointer to your website and social media presences. (You’re welcome to include other related links.)

Or, if video is more your thing, let me know if you’d like to do a 10-15 minute videochat for my YouTube channel. I’m happy to handle filming and adding subtitles, so if you want a video without that hassle, this is a reasonable way to get one created. ???? Send 2-3 possible topics along with information about what you’re promoting and its timeline.

Show more

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Get Fiction in Your Mailbox Each Month

Want access to a lively community of writers and readers, free writing classes, co-working sessions, special speakers, weekly writing games, random pictures and MORE for as little as $2? Check out Cat’s Patreon campaign.

Want to get some new fiction? Support my Patreon campaign.
Want to get some new fiction? Support my Patreon campaign.

 

"(On the writing F&SF workshop) Wanted to crow and say thanks: the first story I wrote after taking your class was my very first sale. Coincidence? nah….thanks so much."

~K. Richardson

You may also like...

Guest Post: Brian McNett Serves Up Colorful Purple Wheat Noodles

A bit of a preamble. I often say things which are completely true, only to be confronted by people who flat out claim that I’m only making it up. That I *must* be making it up. There’s no way the very true thing I just said is true.

I’ve learned to cite my sources. So, before we begin, a word about the color purple. Not the movie, although it was good. Very good. Alice Walker’s novel won the Pulitzer in 1983, and went on to become both a hit musical, and the film starring Whoopi Goldberg in her debut as an actress. It might have been something far less in the hands of a director other than Steven Spielberg. But no, not here to discuss film. Here to discuss food, so:

Anthocyanins! Water-soluble, vacuolar, pH-sensitive pigments! Part of a parent class of molecules known as ‘flavonoids’. Mostly 3-glucosides of the anthocyanidins… The important bit is that under the right conditions, they make plants PURPLE.

All plants have some anthocyanins in them; in the stems, the leaves, the fruit, or the flowers. So, finding a natural variety of say, wheat, with a particularly high anthocyanin content in the grain is, in fact, entirely expected. This is what we find: Ethiopian Blue-Tinged Emmer. It is a cultivar selected in (obviously) Ethiopia by Dan Jason of Salt Spring Seeds, who brought back two blue-tinged seeds from a trip to Ethiopia in 1993.

“Purple grain colour is caused by anthocyanins in the pericarp whereas blue colour is caused by anthocyanins in the aleurone layer. Purple grains occur in tetraploid wheats from Ethiopia, and in one bread wheat accession apparently native to China.” –Zeven, A.C. Euphytica (1991) 56: 243. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00042371

Tetraploid wheat. Not diploid like commercial wheat. Wouldn’t it be fun to cross a tetraploid wheat with rye? You’d get tetraploid triticale. And if you used an anthocyanin wheat, you’d have Anthocyanin Quadrotriticale! Super-hardy, purple, grows-almost-anywhere wheat, and the Klingon Empire would kill to get this stuff. And Guinan would advise Picard to keep it away from the Ferengi. Hey, there’s Whoopi Goldberg again!

But, I’m supposed to be cooking, aren’t I? I’m getting to it, really I am.

Hagos Hailu Kassegn has done a full determination and analysis of the proximate bioactive compounds in anthocyanin wheat. Total anthocyanin content (TAC) in anthocyanin-colored purple wheat was found to have a mean value of 197.4 mg/100 g. — Hagos Hailu Kassegn & Fatih Yildiz (2018) Determination of proximate composition and bioactive compounds of the Abyssinian purple wheat, Cogent Food & Agriculture, 4:1, DOI: 10.1080/23311932.2017.1421415

Purple wheat is a very real thing. Its Abyssinian origins have been known for over 100 years.

It only stands to reason, therefore, that there must be purple wheat products. I don’t have to invent imaginary purple wheat noodles. There are real purple wheat noodles out there. Let’s go find some.”¨”¨Hans Lienesch, runs a blog called “The Ramen Rater” from his home in Edmonds, WA. Not too long ago, he rated Purple Wheat Noodles from Koka in Singapore.

https://www.theramenrater.com/2014/01/11/1282-koka-purple-wheat-noodles-aglio-olio-flavor/

Ta-da! There they are. A purple wheat product. Made slightly MORE purple by the addition of some blue corn.

What are we going to do with these purple wheat noodles? We’re not making ramen, that’s certain. Anthocyanins are water soluble, didn’t I say so? They’ll turn the broth purple. Totally not fun. Indeed the package of Agilo-olio flavor Purple Wheat noodles is labeled “Dry Noodles.” Not technically ramen, but intended for stir-fry dishes.
So”¦

Where to find purple wheat noodles? It just so happens that I spent the first six months of 2018 across from the coolest multi-ethnic supermarket in the known universe: Saars. It’s kinda like H-Mart only more or less regional to the Seattle area (sorry, entire rest of the planet). Imagine that the very best Asian market and the finest Mexican market fell madly in love with each other (apparently this story is best told by Chuck Tingle), and eloped to Las Vegas for an impromptu wedding complete with Elvis impersonator. Saars is their love-child.”¨So here we are in my kitchen with a FIVE-PACK of Koka Purple Wheat Noodles, some onion, bell peppers, and thin slices of beef.

This next bit is really simple. Prepare the noodles to package directions and set aside. Sauté the beef and set aside. Slice the onions, and peppers and sauté. Reintroduce the beef to the pan, add in the noodles, and plate in shallow bowls. Yes, I know. This is nearly 800 words just for a single paragraph of not really recipe.

Top with mixed crushed nuts, fried onions, and sesame-seed furikake. This is a delightful meal and multi-colored to boot. Whether or not anthocyanin actually have any real dietary impact is an exercise best left to a nutritionist.

Enjoy this writing advice and want more content like it? Check out the classes Cat gives via the Rambo Academy for Wayward Writers, which offers both on-demand and live online writing classes for fantasy and science fiction writers from Cat and other authors, including Ann Leckie, Seanan McGuire, Fran Wilde and other talents! All classes include three free slots.

If you’re an author or other fantasy and science fiction creative, and want to do a guest blog post, please check out the guest blog post guidelines.

...

Guest Post: Historical Fiction Requires Research: Including Pop Culture! by Elizabeth Guizzetti

Thank you for having me today!

I love writing about vampires because of the historical research. One question I always ask when doing this research is: what would someone of that era know?

My latest novel, Accident Among Vampires (Or What Would Dracula Do?) is set in 1951-52. The protagonist is Norma Mae Rollins, a 14-year-old girl who is learning to survive as a vampire. Before she was transformed, she spent many Saturday afternoons and evenings in her small hometown theater.

Going to the movies was a different experience than it is today. The movie started with not just trailers, but also newsreels, cartoons.

The movie palaces of this era often showed first run movies, but small theaters often showed older movies. Some B films were made to be the less publicized of a double feature, but before television, cable, and streaming services, movie studios sold second run movies to drive-ins and smaller theaters in bundles who played them as double features or as the B showing with a newer film. This is why Norma would have likely seen movies such as Dracula, 1931 though she wasn’t born until 1938.

I also used these films to ensure my speech patterns felt correct as I used a few archaic words in dialogue: may’ve, shall, and shan’t. Norma doesn’t call adults by their given names without permission. Other than close relations, Norma calls adults: ma’am, Madame/Lady, sir, Sir, or honored ancients/one. She calls her creator Mr. Caruso, until he said “Call me Bill or even Dad”¦”

I will offer a warning: modern audiences delving into classic American theater will find plenty of cringe-worthy moments. For most of these films, the Hayes Code was in effect. A woman’s innocence was generally their ticket to life; conniving women were killed. In Dracula’s Daughter, the love interest (human) talks about shooting women as a joke. Son of Dracula has racist depictions of minorities: Black and Roma characters. You will, and should be, offended by certain spoken lines or things you see in these old movies.

This list is not by any means extensive, I watched close to a hundred movies for this book alone, but this list is the vampire-specific films I watched to prepare me to know what Norma knows about vampires in 1951. She thinks about what hurt (and didn’t) the vampires from films and books constantly. She asks adult vampires about scenes in many of these films. And she pretends to be Bill’s “sweet” daughter because as I said, sweet innocent women survive.

This list is in order of release. There are actors you will see again and again: Bela Lugosi, Lionel Atwell, Lon Chaney, as many of them were typecast into these roles.

Dracula, 1931, Universal Pictures (PRECODE)

This is the one with Bela Lugosi in the title role that everyone knows, loves, parodies, and quotes.

My Thoughts:

The first act follows the book, then it tells its own story with many of the book’s characters. If you haven’t seen it, it is a classic piece of cinema.

Helen Chandler plays lovely and sweet Mina but her near transformation scene when she wants take a bite out of Jonathan make the movie worth watching.

Dwight Frye as Renfield is the closest to the book character: always escaping his cell and very strong.

The Vampire Bat, 1933, Majestic (PRECODE)

Villagers start dying of blood loss and town leaders suspect a resurgence of vampirism.

Dr. von Niemann (Lionel Atwell) cares for the victims. He learns a patient, a kindhearted woman, Martha, was attacked by a bat. Another villager, Herman Glieb, claims he likes bats.  Soon the village thinks Herman is a vampire.

My Thoughts:

This movie felt original and fun. It is definitely worth watching. It is a mystery and a horror film. Plus there is a scientist.

The portrayal of women is straight out of Gothic Tropes 101. Fay Wray plays the good and clever ingenue, but there is also the foolish middle-aged hypochondriac, the kind-hearted villager, etc.

Finally, the expressions, general strait-laced manner, and mustache of the police inspector directly inspired the vampire Derrik Miller in my novel.

Mark of the Vampire, 1935, MGM

After a nobleman dies, his daughter is seemingly threatened by vampires and no one know if there is a connection.

My Thoughts: I enjoyed this movie, but as it is a murder mystery, I do not want to say too much.

Bela Lugosi plays a side-role of meta-vampire, Count Mora. Carol Borland plays another vampire, Luna, who draws your eye whenever she is on screen.

Many people hate the ending, because it was held together by a trope which was old-fashioned in 1935.

Dracula’s Daughter, 1936, Universal Pictures

A reluctant vampire, Countess Countess Marya Zaleska, believes that by destroying Dracula’s body, after his death, she will be freed of her vampirism. This fails, she turns to a psychiatrist and becomes obsessed with him.

My Thoughts:

If you watch any film on this list, please watch this one! This beautifully shot film plays with lights and shadows as if it were a film noir. The characters all feel important, nothing in the sets or onscreen feels wasted.

Gloria Holden plays the Countess Marya Zaleska in a soft but deadly way. A direct sequel to Dracula, 1931, it said to be loosely based off Dracula’s Guest or the title character of Carmilla, but the plot has nothing to do with either story. The Countess’ preferred victims are women (she kills men too), and she is thought to be coded bisexual or lesbian which is the only tie it has to Carmilla.

Son of Dracula, 1943, Universal

Lon Chaney plays Count Alucard/Dracula who marries an American woman named Kay who loves all things morbid. She wants to gain eternal life. She is turned into a vampire when her ex-lover shoots her accidentally, he was aiming for Dracula.  Kay changes in unexpected ways.

My Thoughts:

This is a very good film and well-worth watching, but there are several racist depictions of minorities. One of the best parts about the film is everyone is acting pretty smart. Also it has the first on-camera transformation of a bat to vampire. (Earlier films were done with cutting, this is done with animation.)

In regards to my novel, this is the film which gives Norma daymares after she is transformed as a vampire for two reasons: Kay is the smartest one in the room and will do anything to get what she wants. Sometimes, Norma fears being a “bright girl” for this reason.  Though her death is offscreen, well the idea of it gives Norma daymares.

Dead Men Walk, 1943, PRC

A kindly small-town doctor Lloyd Clayton murdered his evil twin brother, because Elwyn practices the occult. However, Elwyn returns as a vampire and murders the villagers by draining them of their blood and leaves evidence The doctor, his niece, and her fiancé discover that Elwyn still lives.

My Thoughts: PRC is known for low budget B films. While this is an original story, it hits many of the same beats as Dracula especially in regards to the ingenue (Mary Carlisle) and her love interest. The lead dual role played by George Zucco is very campy (especially when he plays Elwyn) so if you enjoy that, you’ll enjoy this one.

House of Frankenstein, 1944, Universal

The first of Universal’s monster mash movies!

Dr. Gustav Niemann played by Boris Karloff escapes from prison along with his hunchback assistant, Daniel. To exact revenge on the man who had put him in prison, Niemann revives Dracula. Dracula, played by John Caradine, seduces Hussmann’s granddaughter-in-law and kills Hussmann.

Niemann causes the poor vampire to perish in the sunlight. Niemann and Daniel move on to the flooded ruins of Castle Frankenstein, where they find the preserved bodies of Frankenstein’s monster (Glenn Strange) and Wolfman/Larry Talbot (Lon Chaney).

My Thoughts:

I enjoyed all the monster mash-type films as did Norma. They are her favorites on this list.

House of Dracula, 1945, Universal

This is the sequel to House of Frankenstein Dr. Franz Edelmann is visited by Dracula and the Wolfman who are trying to cure their vampirism and lycanthropy. John Carradine, Glenn Strange, and Lon Chaney reprise their roles from The House of Frankenstein.

My Thoughts:

The sequel is even more wonderful monster mashup film. It has all the wonderful tropes of the era. There is one thing that always strikes me as unintentionally funny–a very polite mob.

I love this movie and it is also Norma’s favorite on the list. She questions the older vampires about things she witnessed in this movie.

The Return of the Vampire, 1943, Columbia Pictures

Bela Lugosi is a vampire named Armand Tesla who is thwarted over the course of two wars by a doctor, Lady Jane Ainsley, played by Frieda Inescort. Lugosi basically plays the same characterization as Dracula, but due to copyright issues, he is Aramand Tesla.

My Thoughts: 

This is another movie I really enjoyed. Inescort plays an educated doctor who is also a successful, loving mother. Obviously, she is a privileged woman, but it’s always nice to see an educated adult woman, who raised a son on her own, being the smartest one on the screen. Her aging makeup was well-done and restrained.

Other than a few moments of overacting at the first death of Tesla, the werewolf character, Andreas, is another standout. His acting is subtle even through his wolf makeup, and there are so many moments the audience feels for him.

The Vampire’s Ghost, 1945, Republic Pictures

John Abbot plays Webb Fallon, a nightclub owner and occult expert who offers advice on some murders. He falls in love with the ingenue. Loosely based on the 1819 short story “The Vampyre” by John Polidori.

My Thoughts:

The film hits several ingenue threatened by vampire stuff, but I felt this movie was somewhat forgettable and had very little tension. Even when the scene was supposed to be tense.

Abbot and Castello Meet Frankenstein, 1948 Universal Pictures

This is the last vampire Bela Lugosi played, but the first of several films in which the comedy duo, Abbot and Costello, meets classic Universal’s monsters and characters from their films. They and their friends encounter an evil doctor, Dracula, Frankenstein’s monster, and the Wolf Man.

My Thoughts:

The chemistry between Abbot and Costello makes for good comedy, even if the comedy itself isn’t evergreen. The actors who play monsters play their roles straight from their respective films. There is also an uncredited cameo of Vincent Price as the voice of the Invisible Man.


Accident Among Vampires or What Would Dracula Do?

By Elizabeth Guizzetti

Issaquah, Washington, USA, 1951

My name is Norma Mae Rollins. I’m fourteen and an illegal vampire. I miss my mom, but new ghoulish appetites force me to remain with my creator.

Bill didn’t mean to transform me. At least, that’s what he claims. His frightening temper, relentless lies, and morbid scientific experiments makes it hard to know what to believe. However, someone snitched about Bill’s experiments to a nearby coven. Now both of our corpses will burn.

Bill won’t run. He is curious what happens to a vampire after final death. I don’t want to die again. It hurt so much the first time. Bill thinks his vampire boyfriend might shelter me. I must brave an eternal existence with elder vampires and other monsters who don’t think I ought to exist. Oh and figure out who I am allowed to eat.

A vampire’s reality is nothing like the movies.

Available on Kindle and Paperback


BIO: Much to her chagrin, Elizabeth Guizzetti discovered she was not a cyborg and growing up to be an otter would be impractical, so began writing stories at age twelve. Three decades later, Guizzetti is an illustrator and author best known for her demon-poodle based comedy, Out for Souls & Cookies. She is also the creator of Faminelands and Lure and collaborated with authors on several projects including A is for Apex and The Prince of Artemis V. To explore a different aspect of her creativity, she writes science fiction and fantasy. Her debut novel, Other Systems, was a 2015 Finalist for the Canopus Award for excellence in Interstellar Fiction. Her short work has appeared in anthologies such as Wee Folk and The Wise and Beyond the Hedge. She loves vampires and after writing Immortal House, she has written”‹ several other vampire stories in the same universe. Guizzetti lives in Seattle with her husband and two dogs. When not writing or illustrating, she loves hiking and birdwatching.


If you’re an author or other fantasy and science fiction creative, and want to do a guest blog post, please check out the guest blog post guidelines. Or if you’re looking for community from other F&SF writers, sign up for the Rambo Academy for Wayward Writers Critclub!

...

Skip to content